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 Order of modifiers and grenade questions

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KyleSchmelz



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Join date : 2013-10-09
Location : Rochester MN

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PostSubject: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Wed May 20, 2015 2:50 pm

Looking ahead at Charlie's build for the next time I'll actually be able to make it. If I have 5 Crafting: Chemistry, I have a +15 bonus to grenades and explosives. I can rifle these grenades and fire them from a grenade launcher - if I use Overwatch, do I double the damage before or after adding that 15 to the damage?

Example: I make a 10 Area 30 Direct grenade with rank 5 Chemistry. I rifle it, applying the HEAT modifier which doubles damage but removes the AOE. So now it's a 60 Direct rifled grenade, but I can shoot it for 75 Direct because Chemistry. If I use Overwatch, does that become 135 Direct (60*2+15) or 150 Direct ((60+15)*2)?

I suppose this all assumes that rifled grenades still get the Chemistry bonus and that Overwatch can be used with grenades and what-not, but I don't see anything indicating that it can't. Also I'm just assuming that "double three of their shots" means double the damage, but it's possible I'm reading that wrong.
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KyleSchmelz



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Join date : 2013-10-09
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Race: Synthetic
Class: Survivalist

PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Thu May 21, 2015 10:33 am

Also in Overwatch it states "Allows a player to ready their firearm for three seconds and double three of their shots." Is Overwatch only applicable to the weapon you readied at the beginning, or can you fire a couple shots from one gun and switch to another for the third shot? Because I could see getting a lot of use out of Overwatch by opening up with a couple large-ish shots from a pistol (15 or 25 damage bullets doubled to 30 or 50) and then switching to the grenade launcher for a 100+ shot like I mentioned above.

And how can one protect against a grenade? I'm assuming you can use a Bullet Block against something like the 60 Direct rifled grenade I mentioned before or any other sort of dart-based attack, but what if it's a standard grenade and they're in the blast radius? What if it's a rifled 10 Area 30 Direct grenade and I hit them directly with it? What if it's the same situation, but it hits the guy next to them and they're in the blast radius? I guess my question is, do grenades count as bullet attacks or something else?

And assuming grenades (even rifled grenades without an AOE) don't count as bullet attacks, what about darts from other heavy weapons like flame pistols? If one counts as a bullet and another doesn't, I could see that being really confusing for someone getting hit by one.
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KyleSchmelz



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Join date : 2013-10-09
Location : Rochester MN

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Race: Synthetic
Class: Survivalist

PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Thu May 21, 2015 2:55 pm

A couple more questions:

How is the cost of producing guns with Engineering calculated?
"Final cost = total salvage/2 round up in salvage total (salvage/20) rounded up in Material Component
+1 tune-up cost for every 10 salvage rounded up"
I'm having trouble parsing what that actually means. Let's say I'm building a basic single-shot Civilian Firearm with no modifiers. The base cost for that is 10 Salvage, 10 Effort. So the final cost is 5 Salvage (10/2) plus 1 Material Component (10/20 rounded up) and 10 Effort, plus 1 Salvage in tune-up (10/10)? If that's the case, then why do you have one base cost and then halve it at the end, instead of just halving all the base costs? It's not super clear and seems overly complex if I'm reading it right.

For the level 5 Engineering ability "Field Repair", do you need to pay half the salvage cost to repair an engineering item as though you were using the Repair skill or is it free?
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KyleSchmelz



Posts : 17
Join date : 2013-10-09
Location : Rochester MN

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Race: Synthetic
Class: Survivalist

PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Fri May 29, 2015 10:52 am

Tacking onto my question about Bullet Blocks, can a Ballistic Shield protect against a rifled grenade with radius, rifled grenade without radius, flamer rounds, etc?
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Dead One
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PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Sun May 31, 2015 5:40 am

KyleSchmelz wrote:
Is Overwatch only applicable to the weapon you readied at the beginning, or can you fire a couple shots from one gun and switch to another for the third shot?

You would not be able to switch to another weapon because doing so would cause your weapon to be unreadied and would require a separate overwatch.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
Do grenades count as bullet attacks or something else and does rifling the grenade change the defenses?

Grenades do not count as bullet attacks and will go through ballistic shields and bullet block. Rifling the grenade "should" change the defense I believe to that of a bullet, but I am not sure. That is something Staff and I will have to discuss.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
What about darts from other heavy weapons like flame pistols?

The Mega Darts from flame pistols will be classified the same as rifled grenades, but the specific defenses needs to be discussed.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
If I have 5 Crafting: Chemistry, I have a +15 bonus to grenades and explosives.  I can rifle these grenades and fire them from a grenade launcher - if I use Overwatch, do I double the damage before or after adding that 15 to the damage?

Example: I make a 10 Area 30 Direct grenade with rank 5 Chemistry.  I rifle it, applying the HEAT modifier which doubles damage but removes the AOE.  So now it's a 60 Direct rifled grenade, but I can shoot it for 75 Direct because Chemistry.  If I use Overwatch, does that become 135 Direct (60*2+15) or 150 Direct ((60+15)*2)?

Most likely the additional 15 damage would be added afterwards, but Overwatch and likely Vital Strike will also have to be discussed over which weapons/ammo it can specifically increase.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
How is the cost of producing guns with Engineering calculated?
"Final cost = total salvage/2 round up in salvage total (salvage/20) rounded up in Material Component
+1 tune-up cost for every 10 salvage rounded up"
I'm having trouble parsing what that actually means.  Let's say I'm building a basic single-shot Civilian Firearm with no modifiers.  The base cost for that is 10 Salvage, 10 Effort.  So the final cost is 5 Salvage (10/2) plus 1 Material Component (10/20 rounded up) and 10 Effort, plus 1 Salvage in tune-up (10/10)?  If that's the case, then why do you have one base cost and then halve it at the end, instead of just halving all the base costs?  It's not super clear and seems overly complex if I'm reading it right.

Yes, that is properly calculated from my understanding. Yes, it is confusing and I had to do guess work multiple times. I have just changed the wording on those items that have variable components to reduce some confusion for other players. As to why it was set up like that, I am not sure I was purposefully staying out of that discussion because I already had too much stuff on my plate.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
For the level 5 Engineering ability "Field Repair", do you need to pay half the salvage cost to repair an engineering item as though you were using the Repair skill or is it free?

My understanding is that those gained skills from ranks of Crafting do not cost the player any salvage to use. However, should a new tag need to be written such as the Jury rigged items, or a replacement item tag to be repaired then the player should go to logistics to get a replacement.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
Tacking onto my question about Bullet Blocks, can a Ballistic Shield protect against a rifled grenade with radius, rifled grenade without radius, flamer rounds, etc?
Depending on how the mega dart is classified will affect each of those tags, but they will work the same as each other. Bullet Blocks and Ballistic Shields will stop bullet classifications for sure.

------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the late response, I have been busy helping with my sister's graduation party and for some reason the rearrangement of topics caused my account to stop following some sections. I am going to try getting back to answering the rest of these questions, but I do not know how soon we will be able to cover them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
- Erik Anderson
Co-Owner, Logistics, and Tech Support
Characters:

Stitch (Sorcerer)
         Synth
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KyleSchmelz



Posts : 17
Join date : 2013-10-09
Location : Rochester MN

Character sheet
Character Name:
Race: Synthetic
Class: Survivalist

PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:09 am

If there's a concern that Overwatch could make rifled grenades do too much damage, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

Vital Strike has the restriction that any damage over 60 will turn it into 60 Direct, but Overwatch doesn't have that restriction.
Using Personal Modification, I can apply a 1.5x damage mod to one of my weapons (rounded down and cannot stack).  With that mod active on a grenade launcher, I can shoot 90 Direct as long as I don't run out of those grenades.

Honestly the Overwatch question was sort of a hypothetical to see how high I can push damage, but I fully intend to purchase and use Personal Modification and Heavy Weapons in the near future, so if that sort of damage isn't intended for that skill, let me know.  (By the way, I cannot wait for the Rotofury to come out later this year.)
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Dead One
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PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:29 pm

Dead One wrote:
KyleSchmelz wrote:
Is Overwatch only applicable to the weapon you readied at the beginning, or can you fire a couple shots from one gun and switch to another for the third shot?

You would not be able to switch to another weapon because doing so would cause your weapon to be unreadied and would require a separate overwatch.
I was wrong on this, Overwatch works as a pool of increased damage. You can use it with different guns, but every time you would switch a weapon it would require you to reready your weapon.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
Do grenades count as bullet attacks or something else and does rifling the grenade change the defenses?

Grenades do not count as bullet attacks and will go through ballistic shields and bullet block. Rifling the grenade "should" change the defense I believe to that of a bullet, but I am not sure. That is something Staff and I will have to discuss.
Rifling the grenade will only affect the required defenses if it is a HEAT round, because the HEAT round doesn't have an area of effect call.
Area of Effect calls will override the delivery method, this changes from a Power, Bullet, or Martial effect to an Area of Effect. It won't affect other types of effects.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
What about darts from other heavy weapons like flame pistols?

The Mega Darts from flame pistols will be classified the same as rifled grenades, but the specific defenses needs to be discussed.
The Mega Darts would be as per a normal bullet attack, unless it has an area of effect.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
If I have 5 Crafting: Chemistry, I have a +15 bonus to grenades and explosives.  I can rifle these grenades and fire them from a grenade launcher - if I use Overwatch, do I double the damage before or after adding that 15 to the damage?

Example: I make a 10 Area 30 Direct grenade with rank 5 Chemistry.  I rifle it, applying the HEAT modifier which doubles damage but removes the AOE.  So now it's a 60 Direct rifled grenade, but I can shoot it for 75 Direct because Chemistry.  If I use Overwatch, does that become 135 Direct (60*2+15) or 150 Direct ((60+15)*2)?

Most likely the additional 15 damage would be added afterwards, but Overwatch and likely Vital Strike will also have to be discussed over which weapons/ammo it can specifically increase.
The Chemistry passive was misworded. It should only be affecting thrown grenades and planted explosives. However, Overwatch and Vital Strike should have no problems with increasing Rifled Grenade Damage.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
How is the cost of producing guns with Engineering calculated?
"Final cost = total salvage/2 round up in salvage total (salvage/20) rounded up in Material Component
+1 tune-up cost for every 10 salvage rounded up"
I'm having trouble parsing what that actually means.  Let's say I'm building a basic single-shot Civilian Firearm with no modifiers.  The base cost for that is 10 Salvage, 10 Effort.  So the final cost is 5 Salvage (10/2) plus 1 Material Component (10/20 rounded up) and 10 Effort, plus 1 Salvage in tune-up (10/10)?  If that's the case, then why do you have one base cost and then halve it at the end, instead of just halving all the base costs?  It's not super clear and seems overly complex if I'm reading it right.

Yes, that is properly calculated from my understanding. Yes, it is confusing and I had to do guess work multiple times. I have just changed the wording on those items that have variable components to reduce some confusion for other players. As to why it was set up like that, I am not sure I was purposefully staying out of that discussion because I already had too much stuff on my plate.

KyleSchmelz wrote:
For the level 5 Engineering ability "Field Repair", do you need to pay half the salvage cost to repair an engineering item as though you were using the Repair skill or is it free?

My understanding is that those gained Skills from ranks of Crafting do not cost the player any salvage to use. (confirmed) However, should a new tag need to be written such as the Jury rigged items, or a replacement item tag to be repaired then the player should go to logistics to get a replacement.
Relevant change, we are changing the Field Repair passive to: "fix two items or repair an entire suit of armor to full."

KyleSchmelz wrote:
Tacking onto my question about Bullet Blocks, can a Ballistic Shield protect against a rifled grenade with radius, rifled grenade without radius, flamer rounds, etc?

Depending on how the mega dart is classified will affect each of those tags, but they will work the same as each other. Bullet Blocks and Ballistic Shields will stop bullet classifications for sure.
They will both protect against a Rifled Grenade without Radius, but can not stop a Rifled Grenade with an area of effect.

As for the stacking Overwatch with Personal Modification. I think that was an accident from when we combined Fixer and Enforcer. I am asking now for staff opinions.

-----------------------------------------------------------
- Erik Anderson
Co-Owner, Logistics, and Tech Support
Characters:

Stitch (Sorcerer)
         Synth
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KyleSchmelz



Posts : 17
Join date : 2013-10-09
Location : Rochester MN

Character sheet
Character Name:
Race: Synthetic
Class: Survivalist

PostSubject: Re: Order of modifiers and grenade questions   Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:37 am

Overwatch and the 1.5x mod from Personal Modification can't stack, but you can still put it on a grenade launcher and shoot the 60 Direct rifled grenades for 90 Direct... I think that clears everything up, though. Thanks!
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